BMTA NGV Bus Plan

[GWR]

Cabinet to review NGV bus rental project again

The Cabinet meeting today (July, 22nd) will review a project to rent 6,000 natural gas vehicle (NGV) buses again. Meanwhile, the Ministry of Agriculture and Cooperatives will request the Cabinet meeting to set the energy crop strategy as a national agenda.

The Cabinet meeting today will be presided over by Prime Minister and Defence Minister Samak Sundaravej. The important agendas of the meeting include the Ministry of Transport’s proposal of the revised NGV bus rental project and the Agriculture and Cooperatives’ request for the Cabinet’s approval to set the energy crop strategy as a national agenda after gasohol E85 was declared as one.

Meanwhile, the National Council on Social Welfare of Thailand sets up a booth to sell artificial jasmine flowers to the premier and the Cabinet members before the meeting starts.

http://thainews.prd.go.th/newsenglis...d=255107220005

Presumably for Mother's Day?

[GWR]

The Cabinet rejects lease of NGV buses
By The Nation

The Cabinet on Tuesday rejected the Transport Ministry's project to lease 6,000 NGV buses proposed by the Transport ministry.

The Cabinet assigned the National Economic and Social Development Board (NESDB) to do feasibility study before re-submitting the project for Cabinet's approval, said Transport deputy minister Anurak Jureemas.

The project has been rejected several times, due to concerns in the transparency of the bidding as well as the high leasing costs.

..........

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008...s_30078706.php

[GWR]

Panel prunes number of new NGV buses
By THE NATION
Published on August 21, 2008

The screening committee studying the procurement of 6,000 new NGV buses has agreed to reduce the number to 4,000 and will forward the resolution to the Cabinet in the next two weeks.

Akaphol Sorasuchart, secretary to Deputy Prime Minister Sanan Kachorn-prasart who chaired the screening committee, said after the committee meeting that the electronic ticketing system would reduce the budget for leasing NGV buses by 30 per cent from Bt110 billion to Bt67 billion. If the 4,000 NGV buses were not enough to serve passengers, 1,700 existing buses owned by the Bangkok Mass Transit Authority (BMTA) would be improved to NGV buses, he added.

The screening committee will forward its notice on leasing NGV buses to the Office of the National Economic and Social Development Board (NESDB) to determine the positive and negative points as well as the strengths of each choice before proposing it to the Cabinet on September 2.

The Cabinet has delayed the project several times due to concerns about the transparency of the bidding as well as the high leasing costs. However, the Cabinet set up the screening committee to consider the matter before resubmitting the project for approval.

The BMTA had hoped to win government approval because it has suffered losses of Bt6 billion a year and the NGV-bus project would improve the organisation's financial position. The NGV buses would also contribute profits to the agency, allowing it to repay accumulated debts of about Bt74 billion within 10 years.

Under the project, the buses will encourage passengers to use the BMTA service because the buses are new and the fares are set at only Bt15 a trip, or Bt30 throughout a day.

..........

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008...s_30081065.php

[Yappofloyd]

I still cannot understand this leasing strategy and it seems very suspect (another major money pot for decision makers?) given that BMTA is paying so much money not to even own the buses. Modernisation and fleet renewal is well overdue and even though the contract come with depot management and fleet maintainence, surely it would be a better investment to buy a new (smaller) fleet for the same cost?

CITY TRANSPORT Bus leasing plan approved ANUCHA CHAROENPO Bkk Post 03/09/08
The cabinet yesterday approved the controversial project to lease 4,000 NGV air-conditioned buses to replace old buses at the Bangkok Mass Transit Authority (BMTA). Deputy government spokeswoman Veerinthira Nathongborjarat said the new NGV buses, equipped with e-ticket and GPRS systems, will serve 145 routes in Bangkok and surrounding provinces.

The project was proposed to the cabinet by Deputy Prime Minister Sanan Khachornprasart, who was appointed by Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej to oversee the scheme. The BMTA originally planned to lease 6,000 NGV air-conditioned buses with a budget of 111 billion baht, but the Samak administration delayed its decision in order to defuse a threat by the opposition to attack the Transport Ministry on the issue during the previous censure debate.

Ms Veerinthira said Maj-Gen Sanan had proposed to reduce the number of buses to help cut budget costs by 49 billion baht, and the cabinet agreed. She said an evaluation will be conducted over the next three years to see if the number of buses will be enough to serve the public. Mr Samak had earlier claimed the project would help ease the BMTA's accumulated debt of six billion baht. He expected the project to generate about 4.8 billion baht profit for the agency over the next 10 years.

[Wisarut]

I still cannot understand this leasing strategy and it seems very suspect (another major money pot for decision makers?) given that BMTA is paying so much money not to even own the buses. Modernisation and fleet renewal is well overdue and even though the contract come with depot management and fleet maintainence, surely it would be a better investment to buy a new (smaller) fleet for the same cost?

CITY TRANSPORT Bus leasing plan approved ANUCHA CHAROENPO Bkk Post 03/09/08
The cabinet yesterday approved the controversial project to lease 4,000 NGV air-conditioned buses to replace old buses at the Bangkok Mass Transit Authority (BMTA). Deputy government spokeswoman Veerinthira Nathongborjarat said the new NGV buses, equipped with e-ticket and GPRS systems, will serve 145 routes in Bangkok and surrounding provinces.

The project was proposed to the cabinet by Deputy Prime Minister Sanan Khachornprasart, who was appointed by Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej to oversee the scheme. The BMTA originally planned to lease 6,000 NGV air-conditioned buses with a budget of 111 billion baht, but the Samak administration delayed its decision in order to defuse a threat by the opposition to attack the Transport Ministry on the issue during the previous censure debate.

Ms Veerinthira said Maj-Gen Sanan had proposed to reduce the number of buses to help cut budget costs by 49 billion baht, and the cabinet agreed. She said an evaluation will be conducted over the next three years to see if the number of buses will be enough to serve the public. Mr Samak had earlier claimed the project would help ease the BMTA's accumulated debt of six billion baht. He expected the project to generate about 4.8 billion baht profit for the agency over the next 10 years.

The bottom line of this scheme is to extract the commission fees from the importers and distributors ... which cannot be gotten if all 6000 BMTA bus have been refurbished ... or locally assembled ....

[Wisarut]

Now, the Associaltion of Private bus Operators told the press that htere are lots of irregularities of 4000 imported NGV bus project along with 1800 bus renovating proj3ct to turn the deisel engines into NGV ... and they are goign to sumbit the plea to Office of Auditor General for thsi matter.

http://www.manager.co.th/Home/ViewNe...=9510000107255

[Yappofloyd]

Maybe not so much of the bus content will be imported.

Ratchaburi bus builders seek work - Cluster wants role making NGV units by SANTAN SANTIVIMOLNAT Bkk Post 17/09/08
Bus body builders in Ratchaburi are lobbying to have Bangkok's new fleet of natural gas powered buses built locally to support the industry and its related businesses. Pichade Charoenkit, vice-president of the 50-member Baan Pong Bus Body Industry Cluster, said assemblers in Baan Pong met last Saturday to draft a proposal to submit to the government soon.

He said the group aimed to work with foreign bus and truck manufacturers to import chassis with engines, as the cluster lacks the technology for producing bus engines and suspension systems, limiting its production to body assembly. ''We will convince the government when meeting the authorities to give us the jobs,'' Mr Pichade said of the government's plan to lease vehicles for the Bangkok Mass Transit Authority (BMTA).

He argued that this would not only support the local bus body industry. Assembly jobs would also provide other job opportunities and promote upstream industrial production of steel and of auto parts such as auto glass, fabric and leather. He said the country would lose substantial foreign exchange, would receive no taxes and would create no employment if the fully built buses were imported.

Mr Pichade said local bus body builders could assemble all the buses required by the government within six months. However, he added that if the government felt the bus body builders could not meet its timeframe, they should be commissioned to build at least half the buses required.

He also claimed that the cost of buses built locally would meet the budget set by the government. The former Samak Sundaravej government recently approved a controversial project to lease 4,000 natural gas, or NGV, air-conditioned buses to replace the BMTA's older buses. The government originally planned to lease 6,000 buses worth 111 billion baht. It revised this to 4,000 after strong opposition from the Democrat Party and the People's Alliance for Democracy, and allegations of receiving kickbacks from the lease.

According to the Baan Pong cluster, recent years have seen an influx of buses imported from China, with Chinese NGV buses finding a big market opportunity in Thailand. Mr Pichade suggested Thai manufacturers should tackle this by playing to their strengths _ product design and quality _ as well as by focusing on customised products such as mobile X-ray and dental units, or buses outfitted for meetings.

[GWR]

Sophon confident leasing the way to more buses
By The Nation
Published on January 7, 2009

Transport Minister Sophon Saram yesterday voiced optimism he could successfully push through a mega project to lease 4,000 buses for Bangkok, by reasoning with critics of the plan.

"I am willing to bare all the facts for scrutiny," he said.

Sophon said he was prepared to rectify the project if critics could point out flaws.

Bus leasing is the practical solution for Bangkok Mass Transit Authority which requires a Bt6 billion government subsidy per year and is in dire need of improvement to its services, he said.

The leasing charges might appear high, but are reasonable because the BMTA could enlarge its bus fleet without having to shoulder the investment outlay, he said.

"By bringing 4.000 new buses into service, it is possible to improve on the transport network in the capital, enabling commuters to pay about Bt30 per day to and from their work place, regardless of the number of connections made," he said.

He said his ministry is about to complete the drafting of the terms of reference for the leasing contract.

The minister added that he is open to constructive suggestions from the coalition and opposition lawmakers in order to ensure favourable contractual provisions for the lease.

In a related development, senators under the Group of 40 faction issued a statement criticising the bus leasing as unjustified.

The statement outlined a six-point rebuttal and urged Sophon to review the project.

Firstly, it said authorities should assign a priority to lease the locally-assembled buses instead of looking for a foreign supplier.

Secondly, the leasing should be divided in batches rather than seal a single deal for 4,000 buses.

Thirdly, the calculation for leasing charges should be revised to base on a periodic count for each bus in operation rather than a lump-sum payment.

Fourthly, the buses should be reconfigured to serve the handicapped.

Fifthly, the contractual specifications should not be designed to favour a particular supplier.

Sixthly, the prospective buses for leasing appear to lack the environmental-friendly technology.

Senator Kechasak Somboon said the government might cut down the project cost from Bt74 billtion to Bt43 billion after revising the contractual terms.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009...s_30092596.php

Now this report tells us something interesting about the Democrats, both in and out of power:

Deputy Transport Minister keens on buying NGV-engine buses

Deputy Minister of Transport Mr. Sopon Zarum divulged that his ministry aimed to push forward a plan to purchase 4,000 natural gas for vehicles (NGV)-engine buses with 60 billion baht budget, added that term of reference (TOR) of the plan had been drafted and expected to be completed next week.

Although the plan has previously been disapproved by the Democrat party, Mr. Sopon said on Tuesday (January 6) that he was not concerned over the matter, adding that making a better understanding to the Democrat party that having the buses was necessary was required. He said the procedures to implement the plan were transparent. All sides could verify them.

Mr. Sopon stated that he would listen to all sides and was not worried if the opposition parties would raise the matter to attack the Government during a censure debate. He, however, said the plan would not be completed to be proposed to the Cabinet in February, and the buses would not be procured by the end of 2009.

http://thainews.prd.go.th/newsenglis...engine%20buses

[GWR]

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009...s_30092596.php

The photo indicates that the buses may have been parked too close together to avoid rapid fire spread. Perhaps that wouldn't have mattered if the ground underneath the buses had not been saturated with spilt oil and fuel:

FIRE INVESTIGATION
Gas tanks 'not involved' in buses blaze
By: AMORNRAT MAHITTHIROOK
Published: 7/01/2009 at 12:00 AM
Newspaper section: News

The Bangkok Mass Transit Authority (BMTA) yesterday denied natural gas tanks had exploded and damaged nine privately-run buses in Bang Khun Thian district early yesterday.


[Photo: Bangkok Post - A firefighter extinguishes a blaze that caused extensive damage to buses parked at a garage belonging to a private company in Bang Khun Thian district.]

A fire broke out and severely damaged one of the buses which were parked in a depot for repairs.

BMTA managing director Pinetr Puapatanakul quickly assured the public the fuel was safe and that none of the gas tanks had exploded.

Natural gas (NGV) is being strongly promoted by the government as an alternative fuel as it is cheaper and cleaner than petrol or diesel.

After inspecting the depot in Soi Thai Thalay 20 off Rama II road, Mr Pinetr said officials found the fire had been caused by an electrical spark from a battery which set alight engine oil on the ground. The bus caught fire and flames quickly spread to eight other vehicles.

The buses belong to Wangsakanganakit, a private company awarded a concession to run a number of routes, including No 171 and No 173.

Mr Pinetr said the NGV tanks installed on the buses were still in good condition with no signs of any having exploded.

"A security guard probably thought a blast he heard came from an NGV tank, but in fact it was a tyre exploding," Mr Pinetr said.

NGV, which is compressed natural gas, is not highly flammable and is stored in reinforced tanks that are certified by PTT Plc, the national energy giant, Mr Pinetr said. PTT is a major supplier of NGV.

PTT executive vice-president Natachart Chakuchinda yesterday confirmed the accident had nothing to do with the NGV tanks. He said some tanks showed burn marks, but they did not explode.

Police were still trying to determine the real cause of the fire. Officers who inspected the garage said one bus was severely burnt and they had smelt gas.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/loca...in-buses-blaze

And the 'bangs' were apparently exploding tyres:

Bus explosion not caused by NGV engine: BMTA

BANGKOK, Jan 6 (TNA) – The explosion and fire at a Bangkok municipality maintenance garage burned nine NGV fitted air-conditioned buses in Bangkok early Tuesday morning did not result from the natural gas for vehicles (NGV) in buses, according to Pinet Puapattanakul, Director of the Bangkok Mass Transit Authority (BMTA).

Nine metropolitan Bangkok mass transit buses fitted with NGV powered engines were damaged in the explosion and fire, Mr. Pinit confirmed, but he said that the accident was not caused by an explosion of NGV cylinders or any part of the NGV system.

According to an initial investigation of the bus owners company and the police, the fire was sparked by electricity in the alternator and engine oil.

Security guards said that the banging sounds were from the explosion of tires during the fire.

Mr. Pinit said the installation of NGV engines in all buses was done according to high safety standards. Natural gas lighter than air, he said, so it rises when it leaks and doesn't spark fires.

Nine buses, owned by the Wangsakarnkit company, were parked at the maintenance garage in Bangkhuntien district. Somchai Odoam, a security guard said around 3am, he heard the banging sound twice and found a blaze bus, which later spread to eight other buses(TNA)

General News : Last Update : 14:05:26 6 January 2009 (GMT+7:00)

http://enews.mcot.net/view.php?id=8022

[Yappofloyd]

Local bus makers secure lease deal By: AMONRAT MAHITTHIROOK and MANOP THIP-OSOD Bkk Post 19/01/09

Transport Minister Sopon Zarum has decided to adjust the terms of reference of the controversial bus-leasing scheme. The move follows complaints from domestic bus assemblers demanding that the lessor not be allowed to buy fully assembled buses from abroad.

The assemblers claim that if a company is allowed to supply only imported buses to the government, it would severely impact the country's bus assembly industry, which is already suffering from the global economic downturn. The industry employs about 5,000 staff, they said. Mr Sopon agreed with the call and ordered the terms of references drafting panel to add a condition demanding that at least half the buses are assembled in Thailand, said panel chairman and Land Transport Department chief Chairat Sa-nguansue.

The revised terms would be forwarded to the Bangkok Mass Transit Authority for consideration before going through public consultation to ensure transparency, Mr Chairat said. The government has accepted the bus assemblers' demands but "they must also prove they are capable of fulfilling contracts. "If they can't handle it, they should say so," he said.

The government wants to lease 4,000 new air-conditioned buses, fuelled by environmentally-friendly compressed natural gas, from a private company to improve the city's bus operations under the state-owned BMTA. The terms of reference requires the lessor to deliver 2,000 buses as a first batch. And if it fails to do so on time, it will be fined.

Local assemblers insist they are qualified for an order of this scale. The group says there are factories in Thailand that can supply the buses with most of the required body parts. The chasses and engines are the only parts that would have to be imported, they said. The bus-leasing scheme aims at lifting the loss-ridden BMTA out of the red as each new bus is expected to generate 17 million baht in revenue a day.

Meanwhile, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva yesterday denied his government had dusted off the Sor Por Kor 4-01 land reform scheme in exchange for supporting the Friends of Newin's pet projects - a bus-leasing scheme and the "dustless roads" project, which calls for the construction of 7,000km of asphalt roads countrywide. The land scheme led to the downfall of the Chuan government in 1995.

[Wisarut]

The amendament is due to the pressure from the local bus assembly lines in Ban Pong ... so Mr. Zarum has to change the specification to allow 50% local content assembly for the new NGV buses.

This measure is also an economic stimulation to keep the local bus assembly lines in Ban Pong alive.

[Wisarut]

After the Big complains about the new NGV buses by local bus assembly firms - esp the big one in Ban Pong, Mr.Zarum and Newin gang agree to change the specification to make 70% local assembly.


http://thaiinsider.info/2009news/the...y/655-ngv--70-

[pong]

But does anyone know how the new bright-yellow NGV Chinese buses relate to this? They are all run by the private sector-Citybus, Premium Management and some other-and on routes like the 8, 40, 92, 539, 542, and nearly mall 55x Suvannaphumi airport buses. Most are HIGER-some are King Long. Also the new all-white Metrobuses are same -but smaller.

[Sombat]

Dear forum members

After reading several interesting topics on these forums I decided to participate to share information about the things I know.

First a little bit about myself. My name is Rene, I'm 26 years old and live in Switzerland. I visit Bangkok and Thailand quite often and some parts of my family are Thai as well.
I'm very interested in everything related to Public Transportation in Bangkok and Thailand. Especially BMTA is interesting and the Transport Company (บขส).

I hope that I can provide additional information and knowledge I collected in the past few years and share my opinion and have good conversations on these forums.

To answer Pong's question:

I don't think that privat bus companies are affected by this 70% rule because they are privat. They can order whatever they want, but they have to pay the import taxes for buses of 40% if I remember correctly.

But regarding the state owned BMTA I think it's good that they have to order locally built buses.
1) Thai bus body builders are able to produce them. Have a lof of experience from the past.
2) Quality is better than the Chinese products (at least in my opinion)
3) Price is not more than imported vehicles
4) The industry is suffering from the global crises. They need that contract.

Normally I would say it's good to have a free market and a lot of competition and as little restrictions as possible.
But in that case where some people involved in the order collect a lot of money from import taxes etc. I think it's a good thing they do (actually have to do after a lot of pressure).

What do you guys think about the 70% local assembly?

Kind regards
Rene

[Sombat]

Here you go guys. A prove that Thai busbody builders are able to produce top quality low floor buses. Cherdchai in Korat made a nice body. The whole chassis is made by ZF Germany, engine by Cummins.

Link: http://www.thaitransport-photo.net/m...ewtopic&t=5213

(Scroll down a bit and you'll find the pics)

These buses have a nice design and are real low floor and it looks like they have seats you can seat on comparing to the chinese buses.

Rene