Monorail Watch

[R. Zimmermann]

It's a growing problem with the definition. I certainly prefer to
apply the term "LRT' (with the "R" for rail in its generally applied
and accepted sense) to upgraded and new tram-like operations.

The shinkotsu systems are elsewhere referred to as "people movers", a description which I certainly hate. This probably
came about because that's what they are doing on most of their
very short haul lines, at airports, for example, from terminal A to
terminal B etc. To avoid confusion, "LRT" should not be applied to
them. The Japanese term, or possibly an English acronym like
NTS (New Transit System), would seem more appropriate. Anyway, it seems, even the "NTS" in Japan seem to have
reached the end of the line. After an initial euphoria leading to
10 such systems, there is now only one more, in Tokyo, on
the drawing board and Kobe will probably extend (or rather reroute ) its Portliner. Whether it will be built, is another question.
It seems, all the unorthodox systems did not really manage to
establish themself firmly. To some extent that applies also to
the famous "Skytrain" which does a very nice job in Vancouver,
is being extended, but hardly made it anywhere else. (Bangkok
missed out, K.L. got it).
Again, as to LRT, I even saw our very own BTS-skytrain referred
to as such. Whilst Manila's systems would certainly allow an
argument, BTS certainly would not. It is a full-scale urban electric
railway, like the MRT-subway.

[Wisarut]

Uncle Renier,

Well, those who think BTS Skytrain as LRT may thought that the lighet axle load of BTS Skytrain (14.5 ton) comparing with MRTA Subway (axle load of 15.4 ton) is the criteria to separate the system into light rail and heavy rail whcih in fact it is NOT so ....

[R. Zimmermann]

Khun Wisaruth,
Do you know why MRT-cars weigh 900 kgs more than those of
BTS? Both are from Siemens and built at the same factory to the
same basic design.

[ncr]

Originally posted by R. Zimmermann
Khun Wisaruth,
Do you know why MRT-cars weigh 900 kgs more than those of
BTS? Both are from Siemens and built at the same factory to the
same basic design.

Actually they don't weigh just 900 kgs more.... that's only the difference in the maximum axle load.

The weights compare as follows:
tare weight 102,500 / 107,000 kgs
total weight 155,000 / 175,400 kgs

[R. Zimmermann]

Thanks, NCR, that's clear. But, still, why do
they weigh more. Can anybody explain

[ncr]

The BTS/MRT specifications are here:

http://references.transportation.sie...154&div=5&l=en
http://references.transportation.sie...155&div=5&l=en

By the way, what I noticed.... how does it all add up? For example, the Skytrain: maximum weight 155,000 - maximum axle load 14,500. Divide that and you get 10.7 axles???

How many axles do they actually have? Could someone explain once again what a Bo’Bo’+’2’2’+Bo’Bo’ wheel arrangement is? I don't really know about the notation for DMUs and EMUs, only for steam locos (much easier).

[Wisarut]

Extra weight is for accommodating 50000 extra sensors as well as more powerful computer insider the rolling stocks ... andf teh voice recorders ....

[Wisarut]

Now, Ai Suriya is asking OTP and MRTA to implement Pink Monorail form Pakkeret ot Minburi (13 stations - 27 km) via Chaeng Watthana Road, Rama Indra Road, and Suwinthawongse road (AKA Highway 304) with a provision for the extension form Minburi to Lad Krabang (and NBIA) via Rom Klao road.

If the system is the same as Putra LRT, I would feel very worried
as I am right now ... The long stret of this Pink line REQUIRE a good mass transit system with excellent riding quality .... I jsut wonder why Ai Suriy want monorail on thsi route whiel thsoe who live along Rattanathibet road + Lum Lookka road got the heavy Rail stuff? There must be EVIL intention behind the scene!

[Wisarut]

Axle Load is the weight each axle has to bear

For the Co-Co wheel arrangement, ther will be 6 axles and each axle will have to bear the weight of vehicle at the specified amount .... and the reails has to be able to bear at least slightly more than the axle load of the rollign stocks ... Otherwise, the weight of rollign stock will CRACK adn Bend the steel rails!

Many of Thai engineers has SNEERED heavy rail rollign stocks with 3rd rail sicne they see as quite an outdated technology ... they prefer either 25 KV with overhead powerline or linear motors with a very good reason ... but lighter rollign stocks are preferred ... but I have clue wher in the HELL they got such kind of the idea ....

I better TWIST apair of their NUTS as the way to EXTRACT the truths though if they REFUSE to reveal the whole truth ....

[Yappofloyd]

sounds like a painful, but effective, way to get info! Is this a traditional thai method of information extraction? I thought that such techniques were only illegally practised by police/military interrogators in various countries around the world....

[Wisarut]

For the old Legal one, it would be:

1) piercing the Finger and toe nails with sharpened steel nails
2) using a clamp to pressure on the sides of the head
3) usign wood handcuffs which are also the legcuffs and neckcuffs with with chains on the heels, hands, and necks ... just like slaves ....
4) puttign SOBs ionside the rattan balls so the elephans can play Takraw with prisoners inside ... and there will be shaepeedn steel nails inside that rattan ball ... NO poison on those nail though since we don't want them to die too fast ....

// ------------------------------------------------

A little bit of topic though

[mrtfreak]

To some extent that applies also to
the famous "Skytrain" which does a very nice job in Vancouver,
is being extended, but hardly made it anywhere else. (Bangkok
missed out, K.L. got it).

FYI, denver has a LIM system too like the vancouver skytrain. i'm sure there are more than 3 systems in the world that use the LIM system.

*LIM=Linear Induction Motor

[Yappofloyd]

Khun Zimmerman, Nathawat, japtokal et al,

Having now read the previous discussions I have a query for everyone.

Leaving aside the issue of the appropiateness of mono-rail for this corridor/route.....Now that there is a political push to build a thai construction facility for urban transit stock, I understand that Siemans is considering the request (a bit of quid pro quo it seems), do you think that this will induce pressure for those supporting mono-rail on the Pink Line to convert plans to a subway/BTS?

It would seem to be that this would make sense if the argument is to reduce imports and create a domestic production capacity for future export (to where?).

Unless the mono-rail supporters also wish to to have regional mono-rail construction facility! Could be a bidding war brewing....

[Nekochan]

I am wondering how the project is financilly viable. Based on the latest data from OTP, the ridership of the pink line is only 100,000 pass/day. This is very low. But consider the low density area along the route, it is so.

To low ridership for urban rail, but good enough for monorail??

There has been no detailed study as far as I know. This project poped up a few months just before Feb 6!! So politically motivated.

VOTE FOR NO 9, subway will pass here!!

As I said before that the blue extension to Bang Wa and the orange line from depot to Min Buri are 2 best choices for investment. They decided the purple line will be the first.

For the pink line, bus lane will be (a lot) better option.

By the way, I live in Samutprakarn and now DOH has just installed hugh halogen posts in the median along Sukhumvit from Samrong - Pak Nam. Typically, you can see those posts only at big interchanges. Is that mean they will not extent BTS to Samrong - Samutprakarn anymore.

If I have a chance to take some photos.

[Wisarut]

Khun Nekochan

Tell this thng those who who live alogn Chaeng Watthana - Ram Indra road (Me too!) and you'll get the stories fo maltreatment by those private buses (E.G. No 356, No. 52) as well as thsoe vans whcih have keep cramping the passengers' feet .... along with the daily miseries of traffic jam at lak Si - Intersection - Lak Si Circle ....